Naming Our Fears and Concerns, Honoring Our Traditions

Kudos to Kelly for this discussion's success. People appeared comfortable to voice concerns. Here are the notes I made of the discussion. There were very interesting details about what happened that should make for a good discussion at our meeting next Thursday.

Concerns and Fears:

RIC team is pushing an agenda and is not concerned about those opposing RIC and giving them a voice.

There are those holding a secret (GLBT) that is affecting their self worth. Between feeling like wheat and chaff they are feeling like chaff.

After a year of discernment nothing will happen.

We need to reach agreement to remain in community and that may not happen in the end.

I am feeling prejudice to those that oppose becoming an RIC congregation.

Things that are said for and against will be misunderstood.

A year may not be long enough.

We are simply following Pastor Dayle’s agenda by pursuing RIC.

How will things actually change?

With RIC we will wave a rainbow flag. GLBT have always been welcome at Creator but this will bring in those with a political edge. This is drawing too much attention.

Explicit welcome for people engaging in extramarital sex will compromise the church’s traditional moral standards and condoned behaviors.

There needs to be a deeper discussion about choice. Given the spectrum of people's sexuality that some may have a choice and the church's position will sway them towards GLBT or away from it.

It is not our job to judge. We will judge rather than welcome.

Explicit welcomes will either be a laundry list to include all or will not include everyone.

RIC is draining resources and focus from deeper Creator needs. Mission to young families is being neglected.

I feel concerned that if those in Creator who disagree with one another over this issue are judging and we need to love those who don’t think like us.

Fear: Families may not want to worship here. Need to find voice for everyone. Anger: There are other more pressing concerns for Creator that our time should be invested in.

Financial concerns: Families may leave.

Creator is not doing a good job of welcoming some people now. We won’t be able to welcome GLBT even if we become an RIC congregation.

Concern people see this as following Pastor Dayle’s agenda. Creator knew her feelings on this coming in.

We need to intentionally do things differently to welcome. Fear is this will not be regarded as a challenge and status quo on welcome will remain.

We do not have enough personal responsibility for welcome. We do not follow what has been welcoming in the past. Not getting out of church without a hug from pastor.

When we welcome GLBT we are turning our back or ignoring scripture.

Concern about “dark side” GLBT (those who have no intention of living in monogamous relationships) coming to the church because of the explicit invitation.

We need to have a sense of community in order to be welcoming. How does Creator define itself as a community? We want to be a church with members that share common thoughts and values.

Another RIC statement

When Dave was preaching at Central Lutheran in Portland, he picked up this RIC statement as printed in their bulletin:

Welcome! In response to the call in Romans 15:7 to "welcome one another...as Christ has welcomed you for the glory of God," we, the members of Central Lutheran Church, join hands with all our sisters and brothers regardless of race, age, gender identity, marital status, physical and mental abilities, sexual orientations, national origin, or economic status. We celebrate the diversity of God's family and our unity as God's people.

I like it!

Adult Forum this Sunday - Naming Our Concerns and Fears

Kelly has graciously volunteered to lead this Sunday's Adult Forum. Here are his thoughts, a structure he proposes and comments about a Thursday meeting:

It's pretty clear to me that my role would be to coax out the issues and attitudes that people may be holding onto out of fear or anxiety, and that the only way this can truly be accomplished is to honor their honesty and courage in speaking up. It will probably take a bit for people to speak, but once one person does, the next person might, and the ball would get rolling. The input from people that we collect in the box can be used as a series of prompts to give structure to the conversation. We could call it, "Thinking out of the box."

Here's a possible structure:

Welcome/PrayerIntroductions

Statement of Purpose

Norms/Expectations

"Thinking out of the Box"
Prompts as needed/keep the conversation going, reminders about norms as needed

Conclusion:
Where do we go from here: how will we go about addressing these concerns, next steps

PrayerDismiss

I doubt that a meeting would be necessary, but I certainly would welcome the committee's input via email in terms of desired outcomes, suggestions, etc.

RIC Feedback - Two weeks combined total

There are now 42 responses from our bulletin inserts:


Do you have fears and or concerns about Creator adopting a formal statement of welcome for all people including gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people?



83% Have no fears or concerns (35)


7% Did have fears and concerns. (3)


10& Not sure (4)

No response (1)





Do you believe adopting a statement of welcome will change Creator?


71% Yes, and change will be positive. (30)


5% Yes, and change will be negative. (2)


5% There will be no change (5)


19% Not sure (5)



Taking the two questions together with the comments to determine an individual who individually has an issue with becoming an RIC congregation versus concern about others having concerns and leaving of those who responded to this RIC feedback:

95% of those who responded would vote to become RIC if they were not concerned about others (40)

5% would vote against (2).

RIC meeting this week?

Hi - Just wanted to be sure that everyone knows that the RIC team is meeting this week to review feedback responses and prepare for the session next Sunday - right? Not that I'm going to be around - I'm headed out for my Celtic Pilgrimage, but am eager for the meeting on Sunday to go well. Gary - did you ever post the minutes of our last meeting? Maybe I missed it.

This Sunday RIC Feedback Results

Thanks to everyone for making the bulletin inserts and for helping make the feedback annoucement this morning.

Here are the results from this Sunday's service.

There were 24 responses:

Do you have fears and or concerns about Creator adopting a formal statement of welcome for all people including gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people?

87.5% Have no fears or concerns (21)

12.5% Did have fears and concerns. (3)

Of those concerned one marked RIC would be a positive change. That person was concerned others might be uncomfortable with the explicit affirmation of welcome.

Do you believe adopting a statement of welcome will change Creator?

70.83% Yes, and change will be positive. (17)

8.33% Yes, and change will be negative. (2)

0% There will be no change (0)

20.83% Not sure (5)

The primary concern was about people leaving the church over issue of the affirmation of welcome. The secondary concern was about whether there was a need for explicit welcome if we already welcome everybody.

There were comments as well. Affirming comments from a visitor, also that we would be living closer to the gospel in making the explicit affirmation of welcome and it would help us learn to be a more welcoming community.

A few people favoring explicit affirmation choose either the first or second question to express their concerns the comfort level of other congregation members (saying they did have a concern or they were not sure if there would be a change at Creator).

July Bible study

This is what we came up with for a description of Dave’s Bible study to use with the Creator congregation:

“What does the Bible say about . . . : Hope, Homosexuality and Hospitality?”

As our congregation considers becoming a “Reconciling in Christ” community, the question “What does the Bible say about homosexuality?” has come up. It’s a good question. We want a thoughtful answer. Wednesday evening, July 23, our own private bishop, Dave Brauer-Rieke of the Oregon Synod, will be present to lead us in a Bible Study on just this concern.

“It’s not so much what the Bible says as what we hear.” suggests Bishop Brauer-Rieke. “The question is always one of interpretation. The Bible clearly tells us not to lend money with interest, but this is the heart of our modern day economy. The Bible never questions the institution of slavery, but we today find it repugnant. The real question is not “What does the Bible say …” but “How do we faithfully engage modern day insights, opportunities and needs with the Word of God?”

So join us Wednesday, July 23 at 7 PM (and don’t forget the potluck at 6 PM!) for a Bible study not only on homosexuality, but on the power of the Living Word of God for everyday life. “What does the Bible say about . . . ?” You fill in the blank!

It seems that we can tweak this just a bit for RIC and the Synod office to use for publicity:

“What does the Bible say about . . . : Hope, Homosexuality and Hospitality?”

As Creator Lutheran Church in Clackamas considers becoming a “Reconciling in Christ” community, the question “What does the Bible say about homosexuality?” has come up. It’s a good question. We want a thoughtful answer. So we went straight to the Bishop and asked! Everyone is invited to come to Creator on Wednesday evening, July 23 when Bishop Dave Brauer-Rieke of the Oregon Synod will lead us in a Bible Study on just this concern.

“It’s not so much what the Bible says as what we hear.” suggests Bishop Brauer-Rieke. “The question is always one of interpretation. The Bible clearly tells us not to lend money with interest, but this is the heart of our modern day economy. The Bible never questions the institution of slavery, but we today find it repugnant. The real question is not “What does the Bible say …” but “How do we faithfully engage modern day insights, opportunities and needs with the Word of God?”

So join us for a Bible study not only on homosexuality, but on the power of the Living Word of God for everyday life. “What does the Bible say about . . . ?” You fill in the blank!

Creator Lutheran Church is located on 13250 SE Sunnyside Road, east of I-205. You are welcome to potluck with us at 6 PM prior to the Bible study at 7 PM on Wednesday, July 23^rd. We’d love to have you help us engage this question

Let's Try That Again - Posting to the Affirmation Blog

I will send the minutes of tonight's meeting later.

In one discussion tonight we talked about posting more of our own comments on affirmations on the Creator blog spot. Having more comments may inspire others to add their comments.

We will also send the link again with a future congregational email.

You can publish anonymously. The link again is:

http://creator-affirmation.blogspot.com/

Possible Survey Tool

I developed a survey to show what is possible with a survey tool. For those who attended RIC training you will find this familiar. Please do not take content to heart. This is only to show how the survey might look online.

Currently access this through your email using the following link:

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=C0xAMIfNJ9pR4FGGvHgtEg_3d_3d


We will talk about this at the meeting tonight.

Creator RIC Team Meeting Agenda for Thursday, June 5

Here is the proposed agenda for tomorrow's meeting. Let me know if there is anything else we need to address:


Plans for Adult Forum - Naming Our Fears & Concerns and Honoring Our Traditions Sunday, June 22nd

Other ideas to solicit feedback from congregation - Feedback Gretchen received

Request for online Survey tool for September

Working with Spiritworks small group structure – Anything to address with Pastor Dayle’s sabbatical

“The Bible Tells Me So” viewing opportunities

Networking with PFLAG decision

Plans for Bible study, July 23rd

Portland Chapter LCNA Roadtest "Walking the Talk of Welcome"

Draft Affirmation Activity

Youth RIC Activity

Other July Activities and July newsletter article

Youth discuss RIC

I'm posting Toni's email to me here in the blog, both to share it and to keep it in our official record:

We had limited time to discuss the RIC Challenge with the kids [on the Holden trip]. About 45 minutes total, but the kids were very articulate and definite and came up with something that I thought was rather brilliant. They condensed the welcome to welcoming people to Creator by asking them to come:

"As you are, where you are and who you are." (As you are, created by God, where you are in your spiritual and faith journey and who you are today and tomorrow. )

That is a very good start, I think.